Curse

Hanging Man · Apr 10, 2009, 11:16 PM // 23:16

whenever I monk i prefer to bring a wand and offhand for the 40/40

_Nihilist_ · Apr 11, 2009, 01:24 AM // 01:24

40 HCT/40 HSR Wand and Offhand req Healing Prayers (Fast Cast set)
40 HCT/20 HSR/20% enchant Staff req Prot/Divine (Enchantments set)
+30e/-2 e-regen Wand and Offhand req Healing Prayers (Hi-Energy Emergency set)
Martial Weapon and Shield (Defensive set)

catphract, [Dwayna's Kiss] is an absolutely kick-ass spell, but I prefer the ability to target myself with any spell on my bar. On certain rare occasions, DKiss gets tossed into my utility slot if I feel like the extra Prot/Rez would just be 'meh' and Heals are going to be more important. Hell, sometimes I even toss [Infuse Health] on my bar just for shits and giggles to see how low I can let my allies get before swapping to my Defensive Set (640hp) and tagging them with an Infuse!

Zodiac Meteor · Apr 11, 2009, 05:37 AM // 05:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrael_Eveningsong

40 HCT/40 HSR Wand and Offhand req Healing Prayers (Fast Cast set)
40 HCT/20 HSR/20% enchant Staff req Prot/Divine (Enchantments set)
+30e/-2 e-regen Wand and Offhand req Healing Prayers (Hi-Energy Emergency set)
Martial Weapon and Shield (Defensive set)
Hell, sometimes I even toss [Infuse Health] on my bar just for shits and giggles to see how low I can let my allies get before swapping to my Defensive Set (640hp) and tagging them with an Infuse!

High energy set for pve? Not needed
Defensive set for pve? Also not needed

Careful letting your allies health get low, 1/4th casting time is... slower than you think. My infusion spammer knows to much about that.

360° · Apr 11, 2009, 06:11 AM // 06:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zodiac Meteor

High energy set for pve? Not needed
Defensive set for pve?

This is bad player mentality. You don't even need any sets. Having no weapons at all gets the job done too. But the extra sets are there to help, and the chances are you will need the other two "useless" sets to from time to time.

glacialphoenix · Apr 11, 2009, 08:36 AM // 08:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by 360°

This is bad player mentality. You don't even need any sets. Having no weapons at all gets the job done too. But the extra sets are there to help, and the chances are you will need the other two "useless" sets to from time to time.

Agreed, and I bring it to remind myself to weaponswap, too. You don't have to get it all at one shot: I doubt you'd really need it in NM, anyway - but as 360 says, it's handy.

Mearick · Apr 13, 2009, 04:56 AM // 04:56

I've noticed i havnt really been using prot spirit that much, would it be a good idea to swap it out and run something like...

[Word of Healing][Reversal of fortune][patient spirit][aegis][guardian][dismiss condition][remove hex][glyph of lesser energy]

Wish Swiftdeath · Apr 13, 2009, 06:11 AM // 06:11

Get used to using prot spirit and spirit bond, later on they will save lives.

I'm not too big a fan of RoF and Patient on the same bar either so maybe swap in a large prot for one of those. I would advise patient because RoF is one of the worst spells for beginner monks, (generalizing) they spam it without looking at what they are doing, though if you think you are good with watching the damage and where it's going/going to go then feel free to use.

As for weaponsets, i would advise to use them. It's good practice for later - sit in your shield set whenever possible, in PvE the mobs are stupid so it's fine to swap every cast, you get more efficient use of your skills and it is an easy way of practicing weaponswapping without the pressure of PvP. Soon it will be almost as instinctive as casting the skill (swap just before you cast). Of course when you get to PvP you probably will need to mix it up a bit since swapping every cast is just pleak bait.

However that said, YOU need to try and test things out - practice, improve your playstyle, know what works for you and what doesn't and play to your strengths, pick skills that you're comfortable with. That's what really makes you a better monk.

Edit: I saw signet of devotion earlier on in the thread, DO NOT USE, signet of devotion is terrible, i'd rather run an empty skill slot.

glacialphoenix · Apr 13, 2009, 10:50 AM // 10:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wish Swiftdeath

Get used to using prot spirit and spirit bond, later on they will save lives.

Yeah, this is true. I think you're not noticing the effect because - if you're playing in early NM - the damage you're mitigating is minimal. Enemies just don't do all that much damage, and some may just slide under the '10% hp' or '60 damage' requirement for Prot Spirit and Spirit Bond respectively. Once you've seen the amount it can mitigate in HM, you'll never find yourself without it again.

Also, with your current bar, I'm not sure if you'll find Glyph of Lesser Energy useful - you only have one 10e spell; the rest are 5e and you shouldn't be spamming them.

Wish Swiftdeath · Apr 13, 2009, 04:06 PM // 16:06

While slightly unorthodox, if you want to keep GoLE, you could bring divine spirit. With a 20% enchanting mod its quite useful if you're in a tight spot.

_Nihilist_ · Apr 14, 2009, 02:24 AM // 02:24

Once you hit the mid-game areas where enemies can hit sufficiently hard, you'll want Prot Spirit on your bar; the amount of damage that PS can mitigate borders on ungodly.

Weapon-swapping is important if you want to play your Monk in PvP later on. Taking the 4 sets I mentioned earlier (pulled from the Monk Sticky) for a WoH Hybrid bar is more than just standard, it's necessary.

RoF is a great spell, but if you aren't watching who is taking damage by watching the battlefield rather than your Party Menu (like most new Monks - red bars are not that helpful, but newer Monks watch them like a cat watching a tennis match on TV), you aren't going to use it to best effect, and with a 2 second recharge, you can easily spam RoF enough to completely deplete your energy pool if you aren't paying attention.

J I L T · Apr 14, 2009, 02:36 AM // 02:36

[build prof=Mo heal=12+1+3 divine=12+1][light of deliverance][holy haste][healing whisper][dwaynas kiss][heal other][signet of rejuvenation][orison of healing][renew life][/build] Nice cheap spammable skills with good party wide heal good for both aoe damage and spikes unless you're the one getting spiked

[build prof=Mo prot=12+1+3 divine=12+1][aegis][boon signet][protective spirit][reversal of fortune][guardian][dismiss condition][shield of absorption][rebirth][/build] Kind of like a hybrid without spreading your points out just have to time boon signet well

[Build prof=Mo heal=12+1+3 divine=12+1][healers covenant][orison of healing][healing whisper][dwaynas kiss][patient spirit][healing touch][infuse health][restore life][/build] While I haven't been using it long I like the ability to constantly cast spells and never run out of energy just have to end covenant quick sometimes if you need extra healing power. [Infuse health] is just for emergencies when you have to end [healers covenant].

Most people don't like touch range resurrection skills but they're the best ones for in battle use and really resurrection skills don't matter that much because you shouldn't be dying that much. Plus [renew life] saved me and my group a few times when doing Domain of Anguish and resurrecting while healing (and for a large amount of health basically 2 [heal [email protected]] if you think about it) is worth having to touch a corpse. So really using [renew [email protected]] is like saving 25 energy, 10 for a resurrect and 15 for a heal party.

Personally I think glyph of lesser energy is a bad skill for monks to use. It can only save a maximum of 15 energy every 30 seconds and it forces you to use spells that cost 10 energy or more and spells that cost 10 or more are usually for emergencies so I've never been able to time the extra second to cast the glyph. Always ended with someone dead.

Wish Swiftdeath · Apr 14, 2009, 02:58 AM // 02:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by J I L T

[build prof=Mo heal=12+1+3 divine=12+1][light of deliverance][holy haste][healing whisper][dwaynas kiss][heal other][signet of rejuvenation][orison of healing][renew life][/build] Nice cheap spammable skills with good party wide heal good for both aoe damage and spikes unless you're the one getting spiked

[build prof=Mo prot=12+1+3 divine=12+1][aegis][boon signet][protective spirit][reversal of fortune][guardian][dismiss condition][shield of absorption][rebirth][/build] Kind of like a hybrid without spreading your points out just have to time boon signet well

[Build prof=Mo heal=12+1+3 divine=12+1][healers covenant][orison of healing][healing whisper][dwaynas kiss][patient spirit][healing touch][infuse health][restore life][/build] While I haven't been using it long I like the ability to constantly cast spells and never run out of energy just have to end covenant quick sometimes if you need extra healing power. [Infuse health] is just for emergencies when you have to end [healers covenant].

Most people don't like touch range resurrection skills but they're the best ones for in battle use and really resurrection skills don't matter that much because you shouldn't be dying that much. Plus [renew life] saved me and my group a few times when doing Domain of Anguish and resurrecting while healing (and for a large amount of health basically 2 [heal [email protected]] if you think about it) is worth having to touch a corpse. So really using [renew [email protected]] is like saving 25 energy, 10 for a resurrect and 15 for a heal party.

Personally I think glyph of lesser energy is a bad skill for monks to use. It can only save a maximum of 15 energy every 30 seconds and it forces you to use spells that cost 10 energy or more and spells that cost 10 or more are usually for emergencies so I've never been able to time the extra second to cast the glyph. Always ended with someone dead.

Welcome to the forums!

Don't mean to call you out or anything but you shouldn't use bars like that.

The first bar has no prot at all, also all your skills do the same thing. Healing Whisper has a recharge of 1 second, dwayna's kiss has a recharge of 3 seconds, heal other has a recharge of 3 seconds, orison of healing has a recharge of two seconds. You are far better off dropping 2 or 3 of those skills and bringing something else since you can't cast more than one spell at a time.

The second one is much better and while not quite a hybrid could work fine with a WoH.

Third bar --> See first

I would also like to point out that unless you want to have some fun infuse is hardly ever necessary in PvE. Big heals like that in PvE usually lead to overhealing and isn't really efficient. Infuse is very situational in PvE, the mobs firstly have to concentrate their damage on one target and more often that not it's easier (and safer) to just throw a prot up since hardly any mobs carry rend.

Glyph of lesser energy is an okay skill imo, it can be used well if you have an idea of when you will need it, for example pre cast before a fight for aegis and then you have a free prot spirit to use on whoever is taking damage. However if you manage your energy quite well then i see no reason to take it, unlike PvP you are unlikely to get pressured so i find it more useful to swap glyph out with something else which does something (like shield of absorbtion).

I think rezzing in battle has been gone over a number of times on these forums but i'll put it in anyway, you should never be rezzing in battle. Your job as a monk is to keep people alive, no monk is perfect, eventually someone will die (especially in HM) - that doesn't change anything, you keep the rest of the party alive, let someone else rez the target. If you stop to rez it's more than likely (given that someone has already died) that you will wipe.

Touch based rez's are worse than normal because they require your monk to run into the thick of battle to res, it's more than likely the mobs will target you for your lower armor and you can't really afford to die like that as that will probably mean a party wipe too. Not to mention the fact that if you are the last man standing it is unlikely that you'll be able to get a res off without dying.

Not trying to be harsh or anything - just trying to help

J I L T · Apr 14, 2009, 04:52 AM // 04:52

While I appreciate your input I have been using builds like those every since I can remember and they've gotten me through everything I've done including many hard mode dungeons, missions and vanquishes. I doubt anyone can really persuade me to change my style at this point. And we just disagree on what a good monk build is really. I think it's better to have a full on healing monk and a full protection monk so their jobs don't overlap and you don't end up protecting or healing the same person.

As far as [word of healing] being better than [boon signet] that's not always the case. Word is powerful, cheap and very versatile but boon signet is cheaper and more versatile. As for [infuse health] it's the fastest and most powerful spike heal it can come in handy, sometimes it's better to bring the more situational skill as opposed to the versatile one.

I also don't really care what the community as a whole has decided what's the right course of action as far as resurrecting goes, not because I don't value other people's opinions but because saying "never rez in battle" is not really a fair statement and they only look at 2 skills. There are times where you have no choice but to rez in battle like Vizunah Square, Imperial Sanctum or the fourth room of the Foundry of Failed Creation. And I never run up to a dead warrior or dervish in the middle of a fight and use renew life, I rez mid or back-line people only. And depending on who died it might actually prevent more deaths to get them back asap. And why leave rezzing to someone else when you can rez and heal at the same time (and do it faster) while the rest of your team keeps going about their business?

FoxBat · Apr 14, 2009, 05:20 AM // 05:20

[Patient Spirit][Dwayna's Kiss] is all you need for spot healing. Any extra spot heals like [Orison of Healing][Healing Touch][Healing Whisper] etc. are wasteful, the above skills recharge fast enough and are more efficient, especially under [Healer's Boon] or [Unyielding Aura]. The extra skills are filled by prots on hybrids, or with good removal or party heals.

glacialphoenix · Apr 14, 2009, 06:44 AM // 06:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by J I L T

There are times where you have no choice but to rez in battle like Vizunah Square, Imperial Sanctum or the fourth room of the Foundry of Failed Creation.

This is true. But it needn't be the monk handling the rez.

cataphract · Apr 14, 2009, 06:44 AM // 06:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zodiac Meteor

High energy set for pve? Not needed
Defensive set for pve? Also not needed

I'm not a fan of defensive sets in PvE either (mostly because they only serve as e-peen), but a high energy set did help me save lives. I admit it was in DoA HM on several occassions when spike was sloppy and mobs broke aggro, but it did enable me to fire off additional heals. Never have I been in a PvE situation where a high set was needed besides DoA.

As for defensive sets - e-peen FTL on a vast majority of casters. And since HM is what almost everyone plays, that +8 armor isn't going to do much good. Even warriors get hit for insane amounts of damage. This is where Protective Spirit and Aegis come in. I love those skills so much, I'm thinking of starting a religion.

Revelations · Apr 14, 2009, 07:07 PM // 19:07

I find that with H/H on a monk I tend to use a high set fairly often in HM pve. Despite calling targets for the ai stuff just doesn't die as quick as it does with a human front or even midliner. Hence fights tend to drag on a bit longer than I would usually like and I usually end up taking a bit of pressure. I tend to like throwing around large prots though. Usually leave prot spirit to H/H and take spirit bond so as not to overlap. HM melee trigger sb on nearly every successful hit. My shield set's spear also has an enchant mod on it, so when I get lazy I usually camp in that a bit. 40/40 set is used mostly for the recharge in pve, (HM mobs often manage interrupts on 1/4 cast WoH. Reflexes are overrated) especially in areas with a lot of life steal or degen. (ie. Magus stone wind riders. Or Duncan's level)

Note that my team does not contain a lack of offence, in most of NM I H/H with myself as the lone monk, plus maybe another aegis (or a mostly channeling rit with a pot + soothing memories or something similar) somewhere on my midline.

And to anyone advocating monk resses in mid combat - not a good idea. While you're sitting there waving your hands around in a stupidly long animation your other teammates are dying. You can afford to lose midline support for a few seconds far more than you can afford to lose a monk for the same duration.

/walloftext

_Nihilist_ · Apr 14, 2009, 08:14 PM // 20:14

I use my Defensive set to help me keep weapon-swapping in practice. I don't use uber-rare weapons for any of my characters unless I feel that the character would prefer that skin for whatever reason; usually, the very rare skins that everyone are scrambling after make my eyes hurt...

+8AL or no, my defensive set is modded for +60hp, and usually tops me off @ around 640hp max. Sometimes I use a +5e spear, sometimes I use a 10% HCT or 10% HSR inscription, I'm currently testing which one does the most for me...

Snow Bunny · Apr 14, 2009, 08:42 PM // 20:42

40/20/20 prot staff.
40/40 healing wand/offhand set.
high energy set.
+5/30 weapon with +10vs./30 shield.

Swap with every cast. While it's unnecessary to do so in PvE, it's a good way to simply make yourself better, and if you ever decide to do any sort of PvP, then you will already have the weapon-swapping ethic.

glacialphoenix · Apr 15, 2009, 06:43 AM // 06:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrael Eveningsong

. I don't use uber-rare weapons for any of my characters unless I feel that the character would prefer that skin for whatever reason; usually, the very rare skins that everyone are scrambling after make my eyes hurt...

Same here. I've been modding stuff I pick up from the Zaishen Chest - except for the 40/40 set, I had to craft that one because the mod is really expensive. The only remotely 'scramble after' skin I want is a Tormented shield, and that's because the purple colour happens to match my monk's armour.

Quote:

Usually leave prot spirit to H/H and take spirit bond so as not to overlap

I play with my boyfriend, and I'm in the habit of manualling my Tahlky so we don't overlap. Works well enough - but probably not the best choice if I'm H/Hing, I guess.